ORPHIC FRAGMENT 90

OTTO KERN

HellenicGods.org

HOME GLOSSARY RESOURCE ART LOGOS CONTACT

For links to many more fragments: The Orphic Fragments of Otto Kern.

SUMMARY: This fragment consists of two quotations which discuss the region above the heavens (the supercelestial).


90. (116) σχόλιον Πρόκλου επὶ Κρατύλου Πλάτωνος 396 b. c p. 60, 26 Pasqu.:

ἦ δῆλον ὡς ὁ ὑπερουράνιος τόπος καὶ < add. Pasqu. e Platone> ἀχρώματος καὶ ἀσχημάτιστος καὶ ἀναφὴς οὐσία καὶ πᾶν τὸ νοητὸν πλάτος, ὡς μὲν ἂν ὁ Πλάτων (Τίμαιος Πλάτωνος 31 a) εἴποι, τά τε νοητὰ ζῶια περιέχον (Pasqu.] περιέχων codd.) καὶ τὴν | 61 Pasqu. μίαν τῶν αἰωνίων πάντων αἰτίαν καὶ τὰς κρυφίους τούτων ἀρχάς, ὡς δ᾽ ἂν οἱ Ὀρφικοὶ φαῖεν, ἄνωθεν μὲν ὁριζόμενος τῶι Αἰθέρι, κάτωθεν δὲ τῶι Φάνητι - πάντα γὰρ τὰ μεταξὺ τούτων συμπληροῖ τὸν νοητὸν διάκοσμον.

“Is it not evident that they are, the supercelestial place, an essence without colour, without figure, and without the touch, and all the intelligible extent? An extent comprehending, as Plato would say, intelligible animals, the one cause of all eternal natures, and the occult principles of these; but as the followers of Orpheus would say, bounded by æther upwards, and by Phanes downwards. For all between these two gives completion to the intelligible order.” (trans. Thomas Taylor, 1816)

Ἑρμείου φιλοσόφου εἰς τὸν Πλάτωνος Φαῖδρον σχόλια 247 c (Φαῖδρος Πλάτωνος 247 c: τὸν δὲ ὑπερουράνιον τόπον οὔτε τις ὕμνησέ πω τῶν τῆιδε ποιητὴς οὔτε ποτὲ ὑμνήσει κατ᾽ ἀξίαν. “But of the heaven which is above the heavens, what earthly poet ever did or ever will sing worthily?” trans. Benjamin Jowett, 1892) p. 146, 28 Couvr.:

εἰ μὲν ποιητὰς ἀκούοιμεν τοὺς τρίτους ἀπὸ τῆς ἀληθείας, τουτέστι τὸ πλῆθος τῶν τῆιδε ἀνθρωπικῶν ποιητῶν, ὥστε ἐξαιρεῖσθαι τοῦ λόγου Ὅμηρον καὶ Ὀρφέα - εἴρηται γὰρ αὐτοῖς περὶ τοῦδε τοῦ τόπου, καὶ Ἡσιόδωι καὶ Μουσαίωι -, πρόδηλον τοῦ λόγου τὸ ἀληθές, ὅτι τῶν τοιούτων ποιητῶν τῶν πολλῶν καὶ τεχνικῶν (τεχνίτω M) | 147 Couvr. οὐδεὶς ἐφικνεῖται (ἀφικνεῖται M) ἐκείνων ἀξίως, ἀλλὰ τῶν ἐνθέων ποιητῶν οἷος Ὅμηρος καὶ Ὀρφεύς. εἰ δὲ πάντας ἁπλῶς ἀκούοιμεν τοὺς ποιητὰς ὥστε καὶ Ὅμηρον καὶ Ὀρφέα περιλαμβάνεσθαι, δῆλον ὅτι καὶ ἑαυτὸν συμπεριλαμβάνει, ὡς οὐδὲ αὐτὸς ἀξίως εἶπεν δυνησόμενος· ὡς ἂν οὖν εἰ ἔλεγε ‘τὸν δὲ ὑπερουράνιον τόπον οὐδεὶς μὲν τῶν ἀνθρώπων τῶν ἐν τῆι ποιήσει ἀξίως ὑμνήσει, μόνος δὲ ὁ Ἀπόλλων καὶ ὁ τῶν Μουσῶν χορός.

“If we wish to hear and understand the poets who are three degrees from truth, that is to say, the multitude of the human poets, inasmuch as to exclude from consideration Ómiros (Ὅμηρος) and Orphéfs (Ὀρφεύς) – for they spoke about this place, and Isíodos (Ἡσίοδος) and Mousaios (Μουσαῖος) as well - the truth of the account is clear, that of poets from many books, of those who compose from cleverness, not one writer attains as much, but, rather, (the best comes) from the inspired poets such as Ómiros and Orphéfs. But if one means simply all the poets, including those such as Ómiros and Orphéfs, it is clear that he also includes himself, since he said that not even he would be capable (to write about this) in a worthy way. In fact, it is as if he said, ‘Indeed, concerning the region above the heavens (the supercelestial), there are no men worthy to praise this in poetry, but (the only ones worthy are) Apóllôn (Ἀπόλλων) and the dance of the Mousai.’ ”

(trans. by the author)

Cf. fragments 99. and 107.


The story of the birth of the Gods: Orphic Theogony.

We know the various qualities and characteristics of the Gods based on metaphorical stories: Mythology.

Dictionary of terms related to ancient Greek mythology: Glossary of Hellenic Mythology.

Introduction to the Thæí (the Gods): The Nature of the Gods.

How do we know there are Gods? Experiencing Gods.

PLEASE NOTE: Throughout the pages of this website, you will find fascinating stories about our Gods. These narratives are known as mythology, the traditional stories of the Gods and Heroes. While these tales are great mystical vehicles containing transcendent truth, they are symbolic and should not be taken literally. A literal reading will frequently yield an erroneous result. The meaning of the myths is concealed in code. To understand them requires a key. For instance, when a God kills someone, this usually means a transformation of the soul to a higher level. Similarly, sexual union with a God is a transformation.

We know the various qualities and characteristics of the Gods based on metaphorical stories: Mythology.

Dictionary of terms related to ancient Greek mythology: Glossary of Hellenic Mythology.


SPELLING: HellenicGods.org uses the Reuchlinian method of pronouncing ancient Greek, the system preferred by scholars from Greece itself. An approach was developed to enable the student to easily approximate the Greek words. Consequently, the way we spell words is unique, as this method of transliteration is exclusive to this website. For more information, visit these three pages:

Pronunciation of Ancient Greek

Transliteration of Ancient Greek

Pronouncing the Names of the Gods in Hellenismos

PHOTO COPYRIGHT INFORMATION: The many pages of this website incorporate images, some created by the author, but many obtained from outside sources. To find out more information about these images and why this website can use them, visit this link: Photo Copyright Information

DISCLAIMER: The inclusion of images, quotations, and links from outside sources does not in any way imply agreement (or disagreement), approval (or disapproval) with the views of HellenicGods.org by the external sources from which they were obtained.

Further, the inclusion of images, quotations, and links from outside sources does not in any way imply agreement (or disagreement), approval (or disapproval) by HellenicGods.org of the contents or views of any external sources from which they were obtained.

For more information: Inquire.hellenicgods@gmail.com

For answers to many questions: Hellenismos FAQ

© 2010 by HellenicGods.org. All Rights Reserved.

HOME GLOSSARY RESOURCE ART LOGOS CONTACT