ORPHIC CRITICAL TESTIMONY 21

OTTO KERN

HellenicGods.org

HOME GLOSSARY RESOURCE ART LOGOS CONTACT

For links to many more fragments: The Orphic Fragments of Otto Kern.

SUMMARY: This testimony provides us with two opinions concerning the time in which Orpheus lived: the first opinion states that he lived during the time of Gideon; the second opinion denies this, and claims that Orpheus lived during the times of Troy.

ORPHIC CRITICAL TESTIMONY 21.

Χρονογραφία Ἰωάννου Μαλάλα IV 88 p. 72, 16 Dind. ~ Goerg. Cedren. I 110 Bekk. ~ Suid. s.:

Ὀρφεὺς μετὰ δὲ βραχὺ ἡγήσατο τοῦ Ἰσραὴλ Γεδεών. ἐν αὐτῶι δὲ τῶι χρόνωι ἦν Ὀρφεὺς ὁ. Θρᾶιξ, ὁ λυρικὸς Ὀδρυσαῖος, ὁ σοφώτατος καὶ περιβόητος ποιητής . . .

“But shortly after, Gædæón (Γεδεών) became the leader of Israel. Whereas (living) at that time was Thrakian Orphéfs (Ὀρφεὺς), the Odryssian (Thrakian) lyrist, a wise and famous poet.”

(trans. by the author)

|^{76,6 Dind.} ταῦτα δὲ πάντα ἐξέθετο ὁ σοφώτατος Τιμόθεος χρονογράφος, λέγων τὸν αὐτὸν Ὀρφέα πρὸ τοσούτων χρόνων εἰπόντα τριάδα ὁμοούσιον δημιουργῆσαι τὰ πάντα.

“The erudite chronicler Timóthæos (Τιμόθεος), who disclosed all this, related that Orphéfs himself, before such great times, said that a consubstantial triad fabricated all things.”

(trans. by the author)

ἐξήγησις ἐπὶ Ἰλιὰς Ὁμήρου τοῦ Ἰωάννου Τζέτζου 21, 17 Herm.:

πρὸς τούτοις δὲ (sc. ἐξελέγξω) καὶ Τιμόθεον τὸν τὸν Ὀρφέα ἐπὶ Γεδεὼν λέγοντα, ὡς οὐκ ὀρθῶς περὶ τῶν χρόνων, ἀλλ’ ἐψευσμένως καὶ οὐχ ὑγιῶς καὶ ἠναγκασμένως καὶ ἐναντίως αυτοί ἑαυτοῖς λέγουσι. δείξω γὰρ τὸν Ὅμηρον οὐ πολὺ τῶν Τρωικῶν ὑστερίσαντα καὶ τὸν Ὀρφέα οὐχ Ἡρακλέους ὄντα ὁμόχρονον.

“But in addition to these, (I will refute) Timóthæos (Τιμόθεος) who says that Orphéfs (Ὀρφεὺς) was from the time of Gædæón (Γεδεών); so they do not speak rightly concerning these times, but falsely, without wisdom , in a forced logic, and even contrary to themselves. For he showed that Ómiros (Ὅμηρος) came not long after the times of Troy and that Orphéfs is not contemporaneous with Íraklís (Ἡρακλῆς).”

(trans. by the author)

ἐξήγησις ἐπὶ Ἰλιὰς Ὁμήρου τοῦ Ἰωάννου Τζέτζου 24, 16 Herm.:

πῶς γὰρ ἀναιρεθεὶς ὁ Λίνος καὶ τὸν Ὀρφέα ἂν ἐξεπαίδευσεν ὕστερον; πρὸ τῆς ἀναιρέσεως δὲ πάντως οὐκ ἂν εἴποι τις. ὁμόχρονος γὰρ οὐκ ἦν ὁ Ὀρφεύς Ἡρακλέους, ἀλλ’ ἐπὶ τῶν Τρωικῶν, ὡς ἐδείξαμεν. v. etiam 25, 15. 26, 1. 27, 1.

“For how could Línos (Λίνος), having already been killed, also have educated Orphéfs (Ὀρφεὺς) later? It (ed. his education) especially could not be said (ed. to have occurred) before he was slain. In fact Orphéfs was not contemporaneous with Íraklís (Ἡρακλῆς), but he lived in the times of Troy, as we have shown.”

(trans. by the author)

The story of the birth of the Gods: Orphic Theogony.

We know the various qualities and characteristics of the Gods based on metaphorical stories: Mythology.

Dictionary of terms related to ancient Greek mythology: Glossary of Hellenic Mythology.

Introduction to the Thæí (the Gods): The Nature of the Gods.

How do we know there are Gods? Experiencing Gods.